"This totally defeats the purpose of the Max Out rule. You put a beginner in a fly off with Jim Richmond and he/she is gonna get creamed no matter what the rules. Soon experts will be doing 4 minutes and dominating the event. We need to de-incentivize the experts from pushing times up. The best way I can think of to do this is to remove the ability for them to beat up on all the beginners."
Yeah, well that totally defeats the purpose of even having a rule. News flash: indoor competition is just that. Otherwise, just hand out participation awards. Heck, why fly the planes at all? I mean if you do, some beginner is going to get embarrassed that his plane doesn't look as pretty in the air as Jim Richmond's, and that might scare them off from continuing. Then again, they might get intimidated by how pretty his plane looks sitting on the model stand, so we need a rule against Jim taking his models out of the box at all. Hey, why not just ban him and all the other experts from showing up? Why show up at all?
Though the above is downright stupid, it is nevertheless the logical progression of this philosophy. There will be winners and losers, and even if there aren't people still keep score in their minds one way or the other. It even happens at R/C fields where there are not competition. One thing or another scares people off and they no longer show up. Pretty soon they've sold off their models and taken up some other activity. Bottom line, flying is intimidating. It's even more so when there are few sites available.
The irony of all of the above is that I've been contacted by many people who have taken up indoor because of the Flite Test video on that topic. For those who ask for proof, look here: Terry's Indoor Free Flight Fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srr0Gy3C6VI&feature=youtu.be
This fellow took up indoor as a result of finding F1D videos online, and in just a year or so he's flying EZB and F1R.
Someone in Indonesia took up the hobby a couple years ago, no doubt also through online exposure. He recently posted a photo of 20 something teenagers in an outdoor HLG mass launch. About a month ago he posted a video of his first VP equipped F1M with a hub based off mine. In the video, several other indoor models are visible, demonstrating that he's one of many in that country who have recently taken up indoor. Have a look here: my 2nd f1m with vp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7kdfKjcdA
There's a very active indoor scene in Turkey, with teenagers showing up with Manhattan Cabin models (one of the most difficult indoor classes, IMO. Probably second only to AMA Cabin). Caner Aksu posted a photo a few months back of a table full of such models. And then the videos followed of them flying.
Why do I say all this? I'm demonstrating that beginner events are not the problem. The flying public just don't know our hobby exists. Increasingly now, however, they do. Most of them make clear on first contact whether or not they have any interest in pursuing it. More than ever now, those who are interested are actually acting on that interest. What's holding them back is supplies availability and dependence upon "build videos". Most cannot comprehend building a model without a video to guide them through it. I hear this at many of the R/C meets I attend. 3/4 of those present have no clue how to build (and of those, at least half have no desire ever to build), and most of the rest are scared of building and depend upon build videos and the like. You'd be shocked at the number of people who will buy a kit, or even an ARF, and then pay someone else to build it out. This is what we're up against, folks, and adding another beginner even will do nothing to alleviate the problem. Our best bet is to start putting together tutorials to guide people through the process. The closest thing with have to that at present are my limited number of videos on indoor building and the tutorials Ben Saks put together for the Float LPP and Ministick.
-Joshua Finn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7kdfKjcdA
my 2nd f1m with vp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7kdfKjcdA need more practice to winding the rubber
View on www.youtube.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7kdfKjcdA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srr0Gy3C6VI&feature=youtu.be
Terry's Indoor Free Flight Fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srr0Gy3C6VI&feature=youtu.be April 21, 2016 Graham Recreation Center, Graham, North Carolina
View on www.youtube.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srr0Gy3C6VI&feature=youtu.be
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---In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, <wcarneyjx@...> wrote :
<<With regards to the max rule, how about a two minute max per flight, with 3 maxes getting you into a fly off. For the fly off, increase the max by a minute per flight. Once you no longer max but other fliers do, you are out of the fly off. This sounds really similar to how outdoor glider, P30, and other outdoor AMA events work. I don't see why it wouldn't work indoor. If that becomes too easy, set a max time and specify flights must be no touch. That'll keep it interesting in Cat 1.>>
Chris,
This totally defeats the purpose of the Max Out rule. You put a beginner in a fly off with Jim Richmond and he/she is gonna get creamed no matter what the rules. Soon experts will be doing 4 minutes and dominating the event. We need to de-incentivize the experts from pushing times up. The best way I can think of to do this is to remove the ability for them to beat up on all the beginners. They can tie them but they can't beat them except the ones who can't do two minutes yet.
Remember this is entry level. We are not trying to reinvent the wheel. As I've said I don't want to see these things doing 5 minutes. The day we do the event has lost it's purpose. Oh and another thing, let's borrow a page from FAC and be sure that no records are kept.
I know that what I am pushing is counter intuitive to the competition based indoor mindset. I personally don't care who wins a P-18 event. It's purpose is to attract beginners not 'win all costs' experts.
Bill C
Received on Wed Jun 08 2016 - 06:01:45 CEST