Hey Chris,
Hear are my thoughts in response to your questions:
<<I can see how P18 would attract new fliers. But then what? Are they
going to fly P18 forever? If the idea of competition in the other indoor
events is a barrier to entry for a lot of people, I would think that P18
only delays the inevitable.>>
"Then what" is probably LPP and then what ever they like, maybe they get to
see some scale models flying indoor and get hooked on that.. P-18, if kept
at it's entry level operating style should give them confidence to move.
Maybe along the way they win a local contest or two scoring their P-18 in
LPP. By the time the do that They are an indoor flyer. Something we need
more of.
<<I would also like to know what bag of tricks you are referring to that
"ruins" other events. >>
The bag of expert tricks is deep and wide not just limited to building and
trimming. Experts also have access to rule changes. Remember what A-6 was
like in the beginning?
<<One just has to be willing to accept the techniques of the experts and
learn them.>>
Having an airplane they can actually BUILD on their own without special
tools and equipment is crucial. Seeing their own handiwork fly is
something they will not forget. P-18 provides a learning platform that is
accessible to the average Joe. extraordinary candidates will move past it
quickly
<<Again, I get how P18 could get fliers into the indoor scene, but how do
we keep them if they fear competition?>>
We provide them an arena in which to gain confidence free from experts
getting scores they can't fathom achieving.
Thanks for the discussion.
Bill C
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Chris pseshooter3d_at_yahoo.com
[Indoor_Construction] <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> I can see how P18 would attract new fliers. But then what? Are they
> going to fly P18 forever? If the idea of competition in the other indoor
> events is a barrier to entry for a lot of people, I would think that P18
> only delays the inevitable.
>
> I would also like to know what bag of tricks you are referring to that
> "ruins" other events. A mechanized VP prop would be the one thing that
> might give first time builders trouble. But for a weight restricted event
> like LPP or F1L, I just don't see anything out there that is too
> difficult. I think quite the opposite is happening actually. The modern
> LPP being built of carbon fiber is easier to build due to the fact that
> expensive balsa does not need to be graded and tested for stiffness. The
> carbon hub LPP prop that is being more widely used is also not difficult to
> construct. If one simply does some research, they will find that this
> indoor thing while difficult to master, is not difficult to get started
> in. One just has to be willing to accept the techniques of the experts and
> learn them.
>
> Again, I get how P18 could get fliers into the indoor scene, but how do we
> keep them if they fear competition?
>
> Chris
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 6, 2016, at 2:47 PM, William Carney wcarneyjx_at_gmail.com
> [Indoor_Construction] <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The purpose is to attract new indoor flyers. The purpose of the Max Out
> suggestion is to keep it approachable to beginners. I'm not trying to
> discourage anybody from flying the event, just to keep them from ruining
> it. All of the experts' bag of tricks are useless and actually detrimental
> in the event. I don't want to see these things flying for 5 minutes.
>
> Bill C
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, William Carney <wcarneyjx_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good point Bill. We don't want this event to attract experienced flyers.
>> We want it to attract raw beginners. There does need to be a balance
>> though. For an event to be considered successful it must have participants.
>> I think a club who has a high number of experts who can Max Out in P-18
>> might be a club who is having a lot of fun without ruining the appeal of
>> the event to beginners.
>>
>> Experts can fly this event all they want, but they are not going to 'sour
>> the milk' if all they can do is three maxes. Any real expert or progressing
>> new indoor flyer is going to see quickly that a real LPP will be far
>> superior to a P-18 and will want to build one to compete as such.
>>
>> Some will take many seasons to get there P-18 to do 2 minutes
>> consistently, during which time they are exposed to the sights and
>> atmosphere of indoor flying.
>>
>> Bill C
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 7:17 PM, William Gowen wdgowen_at_gmail.com
>> [Indoor_Construction] <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe you can just make a list of all the people who you consider too
>>> advanced to fly the event and attach that to the rules.
>>>
>>> Or maybe you can come up with a rule that anyone who has ever flown a
>>> legal AMA indoor duration model in their lifetime is barred from the event
>>>
>>> I really don't see that this event has any attraction for advanced
>>> fliers. I've already said that I won't fly it. And that doesn't mean that
>>> I'm opposed to the event.
>>> On Jun 5, 2016 8:51 PM, "William Carney wcarneyjx_at_gmail.com
>>> [Indoor_Construction]" <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ray,
>>>>
>>>> I propose that this event be flown as a two minute max event. No fly
>>>> offs, no tie breakers. If an contestant wants to get full credit for
>>>> his/her efforts they may but the times are scored as an official in LPP.
>>>>
>>>> The purpose of this proposal is the remove the incentive of "Experts"
>>>> from flooding the event and making it unappealing to a true beginner. If
>>>> you can get one of these things to fly for two minutes three times in one
>>>> day you are probably ready to tackle a true LPP and then... By the time a
>>>> beginner has gotten enough experience to "Max Out" a P-18 he or she has set
>>>> the Indoor FF hook pretty deep.
>>>>
>>>> The rules, as written, produce an airplane that make two minutes a
>>>> nominal goal. I kike seeing these models fly as they are very "indoor
>>>> like" and I've seen their appeal to the public. I just don't want to see
>>>> these things doing 5 minutes. Sure irt can probably be done but that is not
>>>> the point of the event.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Bill C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 3:54 PM, rbharlan_at_comcast.net
>>>> [Indoor_Construction] <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The cross proposal window is May 31 to July 15, so now is the time to
>>>>> submit any cross proposals.
>>>>>
>>>>> I expect to submit one to change the prop size max to 6", instead of
>>>>> 5.5". There are a lot more 6" props out there than 5.5's, namely at Volare
>>>>> who has six kinds of 6" props.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't checked for a specific cross proposal form at AMA, and, of
>>>>> course, if I check now, Yahoo will blow away all of this discourse and I
>>>>> don't want to type it again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What other ideas do you have for the event, Bill?.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>
Received on Mon Jun 06 2016 - 13:56:32 CEST