Re: So we have someone who sees F1D and thinks it is COOL...
Chris, don't take this as necessarily a rebuttal...I'm just using your words for context, I promise! And please do, as a potential buyer, read this and say what I'm missing and why my price is inappropriate and where I should be going with it.
"A kit that included wood, boron, thrust bearings, and bracing wire for 3 models would be a huge help to those getting started. Model it after the IMS kits, less covering."
Would-be kit producer talking: I don't have my finger on the pulse of the F1D wannabe community, but I suspect that those who have not build an F1D may lack more than just those things. I'll throw in my opinion that an F1D newbie doesn't need to be messing with boron. Under the new rules it is particularly unnecessary. Wing posts should be .027 cf tubes...much more beginner friendly.
Covering being available technically from only one source in the world, I think it needs to be in the kit.
"This assumes that the would be F1D builder is willing to source cutting templates, prop form, stick and boom form, and other tools on his or her own. I doubt that is too far of a stretch because I would be willing to bet most
would be F1D flyers are already somewhat active in indoor modeling."
Prop forms, wing forms, etc, are pretty specialized structures. I'm thinking that they should at least be included as laser cut parts. Again, this is my narrow view, but I wouldn't be spending 3 figures on a kit that required me to source my own forms just to get the bare minimum.
I think it was Mike Kirda that mentioned Harlan tools, and I have to ask why we're considering supplying something that doesn't have the spars already cut. Besides the fact that I have never actually held any of Harlan's tools. You really can strip decent spars with an old Master Airscrew stripper, but again, those items should already be cut. It's not terribly hard to do and shouldn't add significant cost (actually might cut cost because an entire sheet of spar wood starts getting pricey).
Here's my vision of a, say, $300 F1D kit. Tell me what y'all think.
1. Thrust bearing *kit*--web material, binding material, and bearing (I've always made my own, but Harlan's might be a really good idea here)
2. Rear hook kit--webbing, hook retention materials, bracing wire
3. Motorstick wood with laser cut plywood template. Also include a piece of 1/4" OD aluminum tubing and enough jap tissue or silkspan for the wrapping procedure. Further, include carbon wing posts and polyamide tubing for the wing tubes. A 12" .015" stick should do the job with the hook intended to be let in 7" aft of the nose. No boron required.
4. Tailboom kit--this is a little harder. Obviously the boom wood, but a form is needed. Question is what kind. I've never owned a boom form that was usable for F1D and always resorted to forming the thing on 1/8" carbon and then gluing the back on a 1/16" mandrel and the rest practically free hand over a 1/8" mandrel. A carbon glider boom might be the ticket here, just because the Harlan forms are too pricey for the $300 ticket price here. They're worth it, mind you, but not required for the basic objective. Obviously there needs to be material for a rudder and stab posts as well. I'm advocating again for no boron. .009" C-grain should be enough. Given the weight budget, maybe some really nice .010. A laser cut tailboom template should be included.
5. Wing kit. This one's really tough. You need a custom wing form and can't really expect a beginner, even one who's built LPP and such before (anyone who has built an EZB probably isn't going to buy our kits, no matter how good they are), to figure out how to make their own wing form. Let's assume that we can include a two-piece wing form that's been laser cut. The beginner can assemble it without undue risk. Next you need wing spars...my wife managed to get a pretty good wing with untapered .080x.035 spars. It's worth exploring. I'd include a good supply of them if going that route. Those who want taper can use a razor plane like me to taper them. Wingtips should be one piece, and then all you need are ribs, which can be laser cut again, or a template and sheet of rib wood supplied. Also something about tubes if not addressed by the motorstick stuff.
6. Stab kit. Again, a two piece stab form with slots for ribs. Stab outline can be two piece or four piece or what have you. Lots of possibilities, but the spars should be pre-cut. Ribs same story as wings, and like the wing, tubes if not addressed by the boom kit.
7. Prop blade kit. Tapered spars supplied from tapered stock, ribs, outline material.
8. Prop forming kit. I make my blades on a form...they can be done up flat, which is easier to do for a kit. Helical twist is done on the prop block. Mine is built-up, which lends itself well to laser cutting, for what it's worth. A prop covering frame should be included. Good prop covering requires a twisted form, IMO...you only need to include the parts and a triangular jig so they can assemble it...mine is four pieces of 1/8x3/16 hard balsa, for what it's worth. I just eyeballed it rather than using a jig.
9. Prop hub kit. This is for a fixed pitch prop. Mind you that I use an actual tube-equipped hub for my F1D's. Some won't care for that, but it doesn't add much weight and allows the blades to be transferred as needed, which I personally tend to do.
10. VP kit anyone? I'm just leaving this one here. I could be prodded into making VP's in some way shape or form, but that's hard to make a kit for. It's easier to just make the whole thing, and that's where we start talking money for labor. A Banks-style hub would be pretty easy, admittedly. I could make one of those in a couple hours. I'd still want a goodly price, say $60 each. Either way, it's not a critical component of our F1D kit, but could be available separately. We'll come back to that "separately" idea...
11. Covering kit. By this I mean actual frames. I make my frames from balsa sticks, like 3/8x3/16" strips. All you need to do is include the parts with perhaps miter cut ends. It's easy to assemble. I'd have one for the wing and one for the stab (I have two stab frames and actually lay them side-by side on my film so I can get two sets of stab covering at a time).
12. Covering. This one's up in the air. There are a lot of ways to do it, but it should be available direct from the kit supplier. The goal here is to have a one-shop option because that is a major cause for beginners to be put off from F1D.
Now let's consider why I numbered these items. The thought is that we list each item separately, and each one include materials needed for *one* of said part. Maybe two in the case of motorsticks or tailbooms. Wherever we list these items, there needs to be a clearly accompanied guide saying exactly which items are needed, which ones should be ordered in multiples (prop blades, for example) vs which ones you only need one of (covering frames). Have a package deal where you have the complete thing for a slight discount, and have a short kit which has all materials and no templates. All of the individual "kits" above should be listed separately as I've already mentioned because you want folks to be able to decide how many wing kits they want or what have you.
I think with the above setup, you can have an F1D kit available without any need for sourcing specialty tools above what a decent workshop should have. What's listed above would guarantee that, say, an outdoor scale builder, could order our kits and not need any additional items whatsoever (assuming he or she uses 3M-77 on occasion, has Duco or Ambroid, and has a soldering iron--I've never used a cautery, ever).
Somewhere in this, there needs to be an instruction manual. Basic drawings/pictures/whatever need to be included in each of the parts kits above showing how that part is to be assembled and how it fits to other part(s). Then there should be an overall assembly manual, and then there needs to be a flying manual.
I think we could include SS rubber in a few sizes as well as partial motor dummies in order to get folks started, but that starts to reach the limits of what can be supplied in a kit for a plane like this, since the builder's abilities decide what form those items should take.
Ok, I've yammered on for long enough. Please, folks, come tear it apart so we can come up with something that's satisfying to more than just me.
-Joshua Finn
Received on Wed May 07 2014 - 05:07:16 CEST
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