The problem with the rules is the "Rules Laywers". How many years have
the curent rules been in effect ?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 09:01:15 -0500 (EST) Warthodson_at_aol.com writes:
Personally, If I were the CD, I would not interpret the EZB rule
(19.2.11) to prohibit sleeves. I believe the key word is "rate" of energy
release. We both agree that the sleeves are intended to prevent knotting.
That is not (pun knot intended) the same as a gadget that controls the
rate of energy release, IMHO. The problem with the rules is that they are
not especially clear.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Yuan Kang Lee <ykleetx_at_gmail.com>
To: Indoor_Construction <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 8:23 pm
Subject: [Indoor_Construction] Re: model weight calculation
Regarding whether "sleeves" are legal. Here are the AMA rules regarding
"gadgets" for the three classes: LPP, EZB, and Ministick:
EZB
19.2.11. It is prohibited to use any scheme, device, or mechanism which
affects the rate of energy release from the rubber motor, except for
propeller blade flare or deformation.
LPP
21.3.6. No gadgets of any kind are permitted on the model (i.e., variable
pitch props, automatic incidence changing mechanisms, etc.).
Ministick
24.8. The maximum diameter of the propeller shall be seven (7) inches.
The propeller shall be constructed of wood. Wire shafts are permitted.
Hubs that allow blade replacement and/or manual pitch adjustment are
allowed. Mechanisms that cause variable pitch and/or variable diameter of
propellers while in flight shall not be allowed. (Natural flexing and
flaring of wooden blades is allowed.)
-----
The first thing to notice that the rules governing "gadgets" are written
separately for each of these classes. There is no consistency in the
language.
19.2.11 may be interpreted to outlaw the use of sleeves for EZB, since a
sleeve functions to prevent rubber knots, which specifically "affects the
rate of energy from the rubber motor..."
We could also interpret that a torque burner is not allowed in the EZB
and LPP. But a torque burner is allowed in the Ministick, since its rules
do not rule out "gadgets" and only specifically say that VP's are not
allowed.
--- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, Warthodson_at_... wrote:
>
>
> Nick,
> I use tubes for the same reason. Typically, the tube is relatively
short compared to the total motor length. Also, the ID of the tube will
affect how loosely or tightly it fits around the wound rubber. I doubt
that it is an effective torque burner. To be effective it would need to
somehow regulate the release of torque to a lower level that a fully
wound motor without tubes. I think all they really do is help to prevent
the knots from forming near the hooks & they are sometimes not very
reliable at doing that!
> Gary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Ray <lasray_at_...>
> To: Indoor_Construction <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 9:10 am
> Subject: Re: [Indoor_Construction] model weight calculation
>
>
>
>
> I use tubes on my Ministicks for high ceiling flights, but this thread
got me thinking about what is really happening to the rubber when the
tubes are used. When the motor is fully wound, the tubes are slid up the
motor to the hoods on the model. The role of the tubes is to keep the
knots from bunching on the hooks and wasting turns or stoping the prop.
The tubes constrict the rubber so that it can not bunch on the hooks. I
thinking that by constricting the rubber at the ends the tubes may be
functioning as an unintentional torque burner. I think more testing is
needed to know what is really going on.Then depending on what is
happening we would need to clarify the rules to specifically allow or
disallow tubing.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 8:34 AM, <Warthodson_at_...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Nick,
> There is nothing in the A6 rules that would prohibit the use of tubing
sleeves (or O rings). I don't think there is anything in the Ministick
rules that would prohibit them either since the tubes are not used to
restrict torque. LLP rules state " no gadgets of any kind are allowed on
the airplane". I don't think a tube meets the definition of a gadget, but
if it does then so would an "O" ring. Someone might argue that it is not
on the airplane it is on the motor.
> Gary Hodson
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Ray <lasray_at_...>
> To: Indoor_Construction <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 11, 2011 9:27 pm
> Subject: Re: [Indoor_Construction] model weight calculation
>
>
>
>
>
> Wire spacers, when used on a F1D are considered to be part of the model
weight. As for O-rings, they are normally counted towards the rubber
weight. However, they can be cut off the motor as needed after the flight
to meet a maximum motor weight.
>
>
> I would personally define anything that stays affixed to the model as
part of the model weight and anything that is not left on the model when
the rubber is removed as part of the rubber weight. I would think the
tubbing sleeves would fall into the same category as o-rings because they
help handle the rubber. However, I could see an argument for calling them
a structural element since they are a mechanism for preventing the rubber
from bunching at the hooks.
>
>
> It will be interesting to hear what the list has to say because if
tubing sleeves are ruled a rubber control mechanism then they would be
illegal for Ministick, A-6 and LPP.
>
>
>
> Nicholas Ray
>
>
>
>
>
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