Re: Speaking of ambiguous AMA rules

From: John Kagan <john_kagan_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:23:28 -0000

Hi Rick,

This is not a new topic. Take a look at the recurring "beginner event" threads to get a sense of my position.

In a nutshell (a coconut shell, maybe):

- Everyone, including me, wants Indoor FF to survive and thrive. I think it is intrinsically too cool to ever die, but participation levels are something we can influence. The more the merrier.

- The perfect beginner event may be just a rule change away, but I doubt it. LPP is already pretty good at removing variables that can be used to an advantage yet, as you point out, we are constantly producing new beginners events. Why? Because event rules aren't the issue. People will always push the performance envelope. That's the whole point. And if it isn't your point (i.e. you are just flying for fun), then the rules don't really matter. Increasing participation and fun are reasonable targets for a new event, but trying to make an event that "experts" won't "ruin" has proven to be an elusive goal.

- All is not lost, though. There are still great ways to bring newcomers into the fold. There's the League of Silent Flight achievement goals – beginners advance, but the achievement targets stay the same. There's the R/C pattern format of experience levels – beginners compete against beginners and advance when ready. The last time this thread came up, Jim Buxton suggested the Pro/Am format from the Outdoor FF Nats glider camp – and with just a mild amount of promotion this format has produced double-digit participation two years running.

So, make events that are fun – beginner or otherwise. Host and promote contests. Spread the word (or website or photo or video). Share your enthusiasm.

Casting aspersions about each other's motives, lamenting our dying activity, and crabbing about how kids just want to play video games is an unappealing look.

I've resisted commenting on the A-6 discussion so far and I'll try to continue.

I think that's everything that I always say. See my past posts if not.


--- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, themaxout@... wrote:
>
> To all,
>
> This A6 discussion is both enlightening and challenging. given a set of
> rules, what can we do to push the limits and be within the rules?
>
> Just an outside pragmatic opinion...I like indoor, but there is a problem
> with killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Indoor flyers are to be
> admired. My recent acquaintance with Kang Lee, who has jumped into indoor
> with both feet, I am in awe of. He has the magic decoder solution and skill
> to be a force in indoor, but conversations of rules always bug me. If you
> count belly buttons of who are the guys who "fly indoor" competitively and
> then those who say we need entry level events, and then say "competition is
> the name of the game"
>
> This is a hard thing to reconcile. At the top, there are a few who are
> competing against each other and frequent this board. On the other hand..if
> they are happy with competing amongst themselves, so be it. We admire the
> accomplishments of the Stan Buddenbohms and John Kagans, but is there
> desire to win over others or find some other folks that could be a challenge too?
>
> "IF" the effort of the mainstream indoor flyers is to maintain the status
> quo and challenge each other until they die out, then forget about anyone
> else who could get inspired by flying indoor. There is a fine line in this.
> Do the current "guns" of indoor want to promote the sport or do they want
> only to promote their own competitive interest? Where do their intentions
> lie?
>
> I agree when I see the AMA A6 rules set that opens the door to really
> pushing the envelope, but back up a few feet and see how it benefits the
> activity. Is it meant to get more involvement or to challenge the existing
> indoor flyers to outpace each other? My personal thought was it was intended to
> put forth a simple indoor event, but it seems to be growing wings..so to
> speak.
>
> Here's what I have gleaned from the AMA rules book....
>
>
> Indoor Events…Evolution….
> First there was:
> AMA Intermediate Stick…100in-2…called paper stick
> AMA HL Stick…microfilm and all that…go for it
> Cabin…just for a change of pace
> ROG’s…same thing… just for a change of pace
> Ornithopter, helocopter, autogyro…more changes of pace
> Interest waned…let’s think of an “entry level” event to generate interest
> again…
> EZB…what a good idea!
> EZB…crap…it went the way of the “pro’s” Why wasn’t it “EZB” and then “
> UNLIMITED B”??
> F1L…FAI solution to EZB…weight limits
> Pennyplane…What a great idea!…oops…rules went the way of the pro’s
> Limited Penny…to throttle the outcome of Penny
> Bostonian…fun event to counter cabin
> Intent of Rule. This is an event to promote indoor flying of realistic
> propeller-driven, rubber-powered models of a size and complexity which are
> suitable for small buildings and limited skills. It also allows fanciful
> designs, for which no full-size counterpart exists, to be flown.
> Scale:
> Power/P-nut/NoCal/P-24, etc gives us something else to fly indoors
> Scale Models:
> 23. Kit/Plan Scale.
> The intent of this event is to foster flying of Free Flight Scale
> rubber-powered Indoor models by providing an event which requires a minimum of
> research, documentation and design and offers a maximum of flying. A secondary
> objective is the encouragement of kitting and publication of good designs
> by requiring that the models flown are built up and finished according to
> the designs used, so that the better designs will be recognized by their
> success in contests.
> 24. Mini-Stick.
> 24.1. The intent of this proposal is to make Mini-Stick an official event
> to allow including the event in AMA contests, to increase participation,
> and to allow records to be more easily kept.
> 26. A-6. For event (222 )
> 26.1. General. Except for the specific rules which apply directly to A-6,
> the rules for Free Flight Indoor Rubber, Hand Launched Stick model shall
> apply.
> Maybe the approach is bass ackwards….an entry level event and THEN the
> challenge event as the outcome of the entry level. A-6 and "THEN A-6
> UNLIMITED?"
> Well guys, where do you want the hammer to fall? A rules change isn't
> that hard to come by.
>
> Rick Pangell
> Editor of "The Max-Out" Newsletter of
> The Magnificent Mountain Men FF Club of Colorado
>
Received on Thu May 19 2011 - 14:23:37 CEST