A couple of quick points, and then I need to go to bed. First, I did
not mean to completely ignore the nuts and bolts. From what I have
seen, the nuts and bolts are that the majority of people want paper,
hard copies. If say, 50 people want electronic copies only, we loose
our bulk mailing rate and the cost increases significantly for the
other 150 people who would still like to get paper copies.
The "mixture" does not work fiscally, and that is the bottom line.
As I said before, if 75% of the subscribers want an all electronic
version, we will take it under serious consideration. I do not see
how this is nonsensical in any way.
Bill, I know you have worked very hard for INAV and hope you continue
to do so, but, to quote Bentham, [t]he said truth is that it is the
greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of
right and wrong.
The month wait is what we are trying out right now, perhaps we will
eliminate it in the future if this is what the subscribers want. As
for cost of database and website – we aren't paying someone
currently, Jeff Hood has donated server space. Again, this was
stated clearly on the new website. However, if this is to be a
continuing venture, bandwidth, server space, cannot be taken for
granted. And by the way – less than 30 (thirty) subscribers have
requested passwords for the website to enable them to download the
issues.
I apologize in advance for this, but Bill, suggesting that $15 a year
is too much for someone who can afford $35-50 a month for broadband
access, well, this to me is nonsensical (no one with dial up is
downloading 3-10 meg documents).
I've gotten one email so far saying they want only electronic
versions. I have an obligation to the entire group that subscribes
to deliver what they want. I need 148 more emails or letters before
I feel that a majority of the group wants to do away with the paper
copies.
Regards,
Tony
--- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, "Bill Gowen"
<b.gowen_at_...> wrote:
>
> Tony
> I'm sorry that you found my monetary references to be offensive. I
feel that there is some justification to bringing this up - and it's
not that I distrust any specific person involved with INAV. The
reason is that every time I bring up a question about why there is a
subscription fee for INAV I get slammed with nonsensical reasons why
it isn't a practical idea.
>
> In your response for instance you completely ignored the nuts and
bolts of what I was suggesting and instead took the approach that
INAV is going to be either a printed publication or an electronic
publication, while what I was suggesting was a mixture depending on
the needs of the subscriber. I personally would rather not receive a
printed copy at all. There may actually be some other nuts on the
list who feel the same way. I would also rather not have to wait
another month to get my issue if I choose to get an electronic copy.
>
> My club newsletter is produced by one person, converted to PDF by
another and then emailed to the membership. When I was doing the
emailing the whole process involved hitting the create button, typing
TTOMA in the address line, attaching the file and hitting send. On a
bad day it might take a minute. Where is the cost in this process?
When there are changes in the club roster I do have to spend time
making them in order for it to be up to date. If the future
electronic INAV is charging for subscriptions in order to maintain
the database and website does that mean that we are paying someone to
do that work? If the subscription fee were removed I would be happy
to perform that task and wouldn't even charge for it!
>
> $15 is not much money to me and probably not to you, but there are
a lot of people in this sport who have to watch where their money
goes more carefully than you and I do.
>
> I'm retiring from my soap box now.
> Bill Gowen
> Decatur, GA USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jimmy_otool
> To: Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 2:55 PM
> Subject: [Indoor_Construction] Re: INAV
>
>
> Bill et al:
>
> INAV, moving forward is going to be available for electronic
delivery
> via download. As noted on the front page of the new website
> http://www.indoornewsandviews.com/:
>
> "... moving forward, approximately one month after publication
and
> mailing of the new paper issues, we will make electronic copies
of
> the new issues available in the subscriber's only section."
>
> Any subscriber can get password, and a month after mailing, they
can
> download the latest issue, as well as the back issues down to
#102.
>
> As for the subscription fee, I will give a short summary, and we
plan
> to start an annual accounting in the future. In a nutshell, yes,
the
> subscription covers mailing and printing. But Bill, from
everything
> I have seen, most of our subscribers still want paper copies.
Until
> I get 150 emails/letters (we have about 200 subscribers) from
folks
> saying otherwise, I think moving from hardcopy would be unfair to
> most of the subscribers.
>
> BTW - INAV is volunteer only, no one gets paid, or makes any
money.
> In fact, the tone of that comment is right on the line of being a
bit
> offensive. Everyone who puts time into this is giving up family
> time, building/flying time, work time. While I'm sure no offense
was
> intended, I would ask that all choose their words carefully when
> making statements about the finances of INAV in the context of it
> being a volunteer run newsletter.
>
> Second, I think $15 is very reasonable. Yes, we tend to get the
> issues out a bit late, but they get out. Also, we are trying to
> maintain a 40 year old tradition here. Nothing is free, and even
if
> we moved to wholly electronic (note I said "if"), I would still
want
> to charge a subscription to maintain a website and database.
>
> This publication is of course run and produced for the Indoor
> community, so if as I noted, 3/4 of the subscribers write in and
> request your proposed changes we would of course take that into
> serious consideration. However, until I get a majority of
> subscribers looking for change, we will keep doing what we are
doing
> and trying to put out a better newsletter each quarter.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tony Pavel,
> Editor INAV
>
> PS - the "summer" contest issue is done, month and a bit late and
on
> the way to the printer. Sorry for the delay - but expect to be
> seeing it soon!
>
> --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, "Bill Gowen"
> <b.gowen_at_> wrote:
> >
> > I have a couple of suggestions for the INAV staff which I would
like
> > to share with the list membership as a whole:
> >
> > 1. Many have asked about an electronic delivery of INAV and
reasons
> > have been offered for not doing it that way. Here's an
> alternative -
> > how about electronic copies for those who want it that way and
paper
> > copies for the others? I am presently in charge of the
electronic
> > distribution of my club newspaper and it takes maybe 30 seconds
to
> > send it out. Doing a split delivery system would obviously
reduce
> the
> > work load and expense of getting an issue out. I would MUCH
prefer
> an
> > electronic copy. I can store thousands of documents on my
computer
> and
> > access them any time I need to. My copies of INAV are in bulging
> > binders that are heavy and cumbersome. A lot of times I will
trust
> my
> > memory instead of trying to find something in my hard copies.
At my
> > age this is not always a good idea!
> >
> > 2. I have been told many times that INAV is an all volunteer
effort.
> > My literal interpretation of this is that there's not supposed
to be
> > any money left over after printing and delivery costs are paid.
If
> > this is the case, and if electronic delivery is essentially
free of
> > both expense and work, why is it necessary to charge for INAV?
If a
> > subscriber wants to get a hard copy there could be a
subscription
> fee
> > that would cover the costs of providing it. For those receiving
an
> > electonic copy it would just be a matter of asking to be on the
> list.
> >
> > I would be interested in hearing both from the editors and
> publishers
> > of INAV as well as the list membership in general.
> > Bill Gowen
> > Decatur, GA USA
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Received on Sun Oct 08 2006 - 22:15:35 CEST