Re: Indoor proposal IFF-15-5; rebuttal

From: Richard <rick121x_at_gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 18:35:33 -0700

Thank you Don, for your exhaustive reply to the paper/plastic covering
question. I applaud your lengthy and in-depth approach to a technical
concern with additional emotional content.

Here I am a long time builder who has trouble just getting rudimentary
models built and flying, so full of admiration for one who has such special
building and flying skills with additional capabilities to address these
larger issues.

Thank you again. Richard Ranney

On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Don Slusarczyk don_at_slusarczyk.com
[Indoor_Construction] <Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Indoor Contest Board Members,
>
> I am sending this letter in response to the email and post to the
> Indoor Construction Mailing list recently sent by Jeff Murphy in regards
> to the proposal IFF-15-5 which is a proposal to allow the use of plastic
> covering in the A-6 event. I fear there is some misinformation in regards
> to what my proposal actually says. In the past the word for word proposals
> were published in the AMA Model Aviation magazine for all AMA members. Now
> they are only published on the AMA website and unless people are aware of
> that and know where to look on the AMA website to read them, they don't
> know what exactly is proposed. It seems word of mouth is how these
> proposals are being communicated by some and consequently some inaccurate
> information becomes disseminated by this method.
>
> Below are my responses to Mr Murphy's post on the Indoor mailing list, his
> post there is similar to the message emailed to all indoor board members.
> My replies to Mr.Murphy are highlighted in red below.
>
>
> Hello fellow A-6 competitors,
>
> As you know the indoor contest Board will be voting shortly on a proposal
> to allow plastic covering for the A-6
> models. The reason for this proposal is a belief that condenser paper is
> no longer available.
>
>
> Jerry,
>
> As the proposer of the rule change, the exact reason for my proposal is as
> follows (copied from my rules change submission):
>
> *Logic behind proposed change, including alleged shortcomings of the
> present rules.*
> A-6 has a 1.2 gram minimum weight. The paper covering requirement makes it
> difficult to achieve the min weight due the limited availability of
> lightweight condenser paper. Those who have been flying indoor for many
> years have personal stocks of lightweight condenser, but new modelers (who
> are the target demographic of A-6) will have to use the heavier condenser
> paper currently being sold. The new condenser paper is approximately 1.5
> times heavier then the lightweight condenser sold many years ago. Because
> of the minimum wood size requirements of A-6, the heavier modern condenser
> paper requires the use of ~4 pound density balsa for the entire model. This
> forces new modelers to invest in contest grade indoor balsa to make weight.
> My 13 year old son built an A-6 and we needed my personal supply of
> lightweight condenser to get his model to make weight. By allowing plastic,
> heavier balsa can be used and the skills used in covering with plastic are
> directly transferrable to other indoor events such as Limited Pennyplane,
> F1L etc. It seems it would make a more logical progression instead of
> forcing them to use a paper that is only good for this one event.
> Additionally, condenser covering paper requirements on other indoor events
> like Pennyplane, Manhattan Cabin, EZB, and Paper Stick (renamed to Int
> Stick) were dropped about 25 years ago in favor of plastic covering .
>
>
>
> many modelers are not happy with this proposal for several reasons.
> The first is it will wipe our years of records and the second is plastic
> film is not as easy to handle as paper.
>
>
> This is incorrect. It will have no effect on current records. The rule
> change I have submitted does not ban tissue, it removes the tissue only
> requirement.
>
> Change from :"The model shall be rubber powered and covered with paper.”
> To: “The model shall be rubber powered and covered with paper or
> commercially available plastic; no microfilm allowed."
>
> So models which are tissue or plastic covered are both allowed under this
> proposal. So all records will stand. I have several A-6 models that I will
> leave covered in tissue as they are trimmed and fly great. So I will still
> fly those existing models tissue covered under the new rules.
>
> As far as plastic being easier to use than paper, that is subjective and
> personal preference. Condenser paper sags in high humidity and shrinks in
> low humidity high/temps. I recall when EZB was still condenser covered
> having to have saggy paper and Akron on the ground so when the model went
> to the roof and shrunk it would still be in trim. I had seen models fly to
> the top of the hangar and warp and come down only to relax one they were
> returned to floor level. I prefer plastic but if you still like paper then
> you are still free to use paper as you currently do under this rule
> proposal.
>
> The use of plastic film on the A-6 models will make them harder to
> build which will not support the idea that this class of models will bring
> new people into the fun world of indoor free flight.
>
>
>
> Once again it is not mandatory to use plastic under this proposal. The
> wording does not say the model must be plastic covered only. The proposal
> says the model may be tissue or plastic covered.
>
> So, here is the deal. I have discovered a large inventory of very high
> quality condenser paper which means the basic reason for this proposal is
> no longer valid.
>
>
> What is the weight of the condenser paper you have found? The ~mile roll I
> have is ~500 mg per 100 sq inches. The lightweight condenser I am referring
> to in this proposal is around 340mg per 100 sq inches.
>
>
> IF THE INDOOR CONTEST BOARD REJECTS THE PLASTIC COVERING PROPOSAL
> (IFF-15-5), I WILL MAKE THIS HIGH QUALITY C ONDENSER PAPER AVAILABLE FOR
> FREE!
>
> Here are the details. If and only if the indoor Contest Board rejects
> proposal IFF-15-6 I will provide enough condenser paper to cover two models
> for free. The person requesting the condenser paper must send me a letter
> size self addressed envelope and I will return it with the condenser
> paper.
>
> So there it is. Contact your Indoor Contest Board member and tell them to
> reject IFF-15-5.
>
>
> I prefer people make a decision by the merits of the proposal and not
> because they are going to be rewarded for voting a certain way. I have
> miles of plastic film yet you do not see me using bribery of free plastic
> film to those who ask but only if the proposal passes. I understand you
> desire to keep the tissue covering but think that buying votes is never a
> winning strategy.
>
> To me it is clear that there is misinformation about IFF-15-5. I do not
> know what supply of condenser paper Mr Murphy is referring to, perhaps it
> is left over condenser from A2Z Corp (which has closed) as they are only
> ~70 miles away from each other. But the issue is not condenser paper being
> unavailable, it is indoor grade 330 mg per 100 sq. inch condenser paper is
> what is hard to find. However, even with this light tissue I still needed
> to have custom cut 3.8# C grain from England so I could make a prop light
> enough due to the 1/32" thick minimum thickness requirement. My current A-6
> also uses similarly custom cut 4# density wing and stab spars to get to
> weight. Allowing plastic removes this light wood necessity requirement and
> makes hobby shop or Sig contest grade usable again. Additionally, the
> statement that my proposal will eradicate all existing records is
> completely untrue. Plastic and tissue will both be allowed just as both are
> allowed for Manhattan Cabin, Limited Pennyplane, Pennyplane, EZB, and Inst
> Stick. Those who like tissue can keep using it just as before.
>
> If you have any questions about my proposal or want to discuss in more
> detail please feel free to email or call me. I appreciate your
> consideration on my rebuttal and thank you for your time. Unlike Mr.
> Murphy, I will not be offering any rewards or compensation for you voting
> in favor of my proposal. I do not believe that is an appropriate way to
> handle such a situation as this. Instead I will ask that if you agree with
> the proposal I have submitted, then please vote for it.
>
> Regards,
> Don Slusarczyk
> 868 Eaglewood Dr
> Willoughby, OH 44094
> P: 440-918-0290 after 5pm EST
> don_at_slusarczyk.com
>
>
>
Received on Tue Sep 09 2014 - 18:35:35 CEST