Re: Re: what is difficult in building indoor duration

From: Jake Palmer <82.jake_at_gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 15:14:44 -0700

I earn a living as a buyer so I know plenty about opportunity costs.
 Fortunately I have a HOBBY that allows me to escape that daily grind.

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Yuan Kang Lee <ykleetx_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Jake,
>
> This is a good point. One consequence of no BOM rule may be that
> components will cost more. This would be a bad consequence.
>
> But at the same time, perhaps a cheaper wing will be available from Sam
> and Joe of San Diego.
>
> On the other hand, the time required to build a F1D from scratch is high,
> and time spent is money spent to a lot of people. 25 or 30 hours to build a
> F1D is a high opportunity cost. This opportunity cost is also a barrier.
>
> -Kang
>
>
> --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, Jake Palmer <82.jake_at_...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Here's a hypothetical. What if the BOM rule went away and some of the top
> > competitors began selling components? Treger sells his hub for about
> $100.
> > Let's say Schramm started selling wings for $150, and prop blades for
> $100
> > a pair. Now you need to spend $350 to build one plane. You need several
> > backup models to compete. That means I need to invest $1400 in models to
> be
> > competitive. Is that going to spur interest in the hobby or will it just
> > scare away the average guy like myself that can't afford to risk a $350
> > model on every flight?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Yuan Kang Lee <ykleetx_at_...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > Please don't agree with me !!!! LOL ...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, Don DeLoach <ddeloach_at_>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree Kang.
> > > >
> > > > Don DeLoach
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:59 PM, "Yuan Kang Lee" <ykleetx_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So if there's no advantage in Treger's hub, why not allow it to be
> > > purchased and used?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, Jake Palmer <82.jake_at_>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tend to agree with Mike. While I certainly appreciate the
> elegance
> > > of
> > > > > > Treger's hub, I don't think it offers any performance advantages
> > > over an
> > > > > > older style hub.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:29 PM, mkirda_at_
> > > > > > <mkirda_at_>wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would have to disagree on composites being out of reach,
> Nick.
> > > > > > > A foot of carbon could make a lifetime of hubs and costs ~$5.
> Add
> > > > > > > laminating epoxy and balsa rather than Rohacell and you have an
> > > easy carbon
> > > > > > > yoke in just two layup steps. All you need is a Food Saver.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not convinced that the Treger design is any better though-
> > > There are
> > > > > > > some torsional stresses that might be better dealt with using
> Lutz
> > > > > > > Schramm's design for example.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > > Mike Kirda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com, Nick Ray <lasray_at_>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the ease of construction has a great deal to do with
> the
> > > > > > > materials
> > > > > > > > involved. A Brown / Kagan style hub is well within the range
> of
> > > average
> > > > > > > > indoorist. Most of the materials can ordered from A2Zcorp or
> even
> > > > > > > scavenged
> > > > > > > > locally. However, composite hubs like Treger, Tyson and
> Sandborn
> > > have
> > > > > > > built
> > > > > > > > require substantially more involved manufacturing processes.
> > > > > > > > All three use formed fiberglass tubes and carbon layup screw
> > > holders. The
> > > > > > > > vacuum bagging process alone is cost prohibitive for many
> > > people. One has
> > > > > > > > to make 6 or 7 composite hubs to break even when compared to
> the
> > > cost of
> > > > > > > > buying them from Treger. Maybe someone would like to produce
> V/P
> > > kits
> > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > the base components are formed and then sent out with
> assembly
> > > > > > > > instructions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If F1D keeps moving in the direction of using more and more
> > > composite
> > > > > > > > technology we are going to be in the same situation as F1B
> > > within the
> > > > > > > next
> > > > > > > > ten years. I am for not placing materials restrictions on the
> > > models, but
> > > > > > > > at the same time I think that for many competitors,
> particularly
> > > juniors
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > may have to decide how we would like to go forward with
> regard
> > > to the BOM
> > > > > > > > as the models become more intricate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nick
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
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Received on Wed Oct 17 2012 - 15:14:45 CEST