Re: Re: Beginner events and why they're hard for beginners
I may be partly responsible for Nick's feelings about experts and MS
bracing. At St. Lukes last month I had a new F1L with a MS that was
longer than what I usually use. It was deflecting so much that I
couldn't find a trim where the model would fly at launch torque and at
cruise torque. I consulted my AMA EZB rules that said that any bracing
must be wood and made a hasty triangular MS brace out of balsa that
stopped the deflection and made the model flyable.
When I got home I read the F1L rules and found that such an arrangement
is specifically forbidden so that was the end of that idea. I understand
from private discussions that the use of wood bracing on an EZB is also
verboten. But in the case of EZB it's forbidden because that's the way
people have interpreted the rules - not because of what's written in the
rules. I think the EZB rules should be cleaned up but that's a different
discussion.
As far as bracing adjustment goes I don't agree with Nick that bracing
is hard to figure out. If your MS deflects so much that your model dives
into the floor then a simple brace to strengthen it will probably fix
the problem.
On 9/7/2012 2:13 PM, Nick Ray wrote:
>
> I am wondering if this is an instance of the chicken coming before the
> egg. When I first started flying the idea of using the bracing wire to
> some adjust the launch did not come naturally. To me bracing was
> something that you made as stiff as you can so the stick was stiff.
> This is not what the motor stick bracing wire on most indoor models is
> used for. The bracing functions as an adjustment stop to limit the
> deflection of the motor stick.
>
>
> Now what separates the experts from the beginners with regard to
> bracing motor tubes is the ability to select a motor stick that has
> the right spring constant to allow the motor stick to come back to its
> unloaded shape at the right moment in the flight. What many F1D flyers
> are trying to do is to get the right amount of down thrust and wing
> wash to control the launch and then have the motor stick spring back
> as soon as the down thrust and wing wash are no longer required so
> that the model can fly as efficiently as possible.
>
> Changing the rules may help beginners get their launches right, with
> the stipulation that they can figure out how much slack to use in the
> bracing. However, they are still going to have to be able to select
> wood that is light enough and stiff enough not to spend half the
> flight with an extra 3 degrees of down thrust.
>
> I have definitely wanted to brace a Ministick motor stick or two that
> were giving me trouble. Generally, the motor sticks were too weak to
> have been competitive with properly built models even if they had been
> braced. I think experienced flyers who understand bracing wire are
> seeking to add a feature that will help the enlighten fix a motor
> stick that is just barely off, far more than a way to make an event
> more appealing to a newcomer.
>
> I tend to agree that an LPP without any composite technology or a
> Ministick is the way to go.
>
> Nick
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Yuan Kang Lee <ykleetx_at_gmail.com
> <mailto:ykleetx_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I think we need to move beyond the notion that "experts will
> always beat beginners, therefore any rule change to level the
> playing field is futile." That notion is dogma at its worst and
> doesn't contribute in any positive way.
>
> I welcome specific criticism and suggestions for improvement.
>
>
>
> --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Indoor_Construction%40yahoogroups.com>, "Yuan Kang Lee"
> <ykleetx_at_...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The first thing I discovered when I started flying F1D is that a
> F1D is a lot easier to launch than the "beginner" models I fly. I
> have spent a lot of time on EZB, F1L, and Limited Pennyplane
> (LPP). Raise your hand if you have had your EZB or F1L dive on
> launch because the motor stick was too flexible? (Both mine are
> raised.)
> >
> > In an ironic way, we have made our beginner models harder to fly
> than F1D. Of course, we know one reason -- a solid wood motor
> stick is easy to build but it generally does not work well under
> high torque and tension of the rubber motor.
> >
> > Bracing a solid motor stick is relatively easy to do, whether
> using wood bracing or thread. Bracing substantially increases the
> performance of the motor stick. Not only will this help to make
> these beginner models launch better, allowing bracing means the
> quality of the solid motor stick does not have to be as good.
> Hobby shop balsa can be used. A lighter MS can be used, and the
> weight budget can be used elsewhere. These all greatly lower the
> barrier of entry for the beginner -- YET, these effects increases
> the performance of the model for the beginner. You don't usually
> find these "win-win" scenarios.
> >
> > -Kang
> >
> > --- In Indoor_Construction_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Indoor_Construction%40yahoogroups.com>, "olbill61"
> <wdgowen_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > I may be stepping on Kang's toes a little here but he and I
> had almost the exact same thought about a way to make beginner
> events easier. Since I thought of it yesterday I'm adopting it as
> my idea.
> > >
> > > The rules for LPP, F1L, EZB and A6 say the MS has to be solid
> wood and in different ways and to different extents pretty much
> rule out any sort of bracing. Making a MS work correctly and not
> weigh too much is one of the hardest parts of building any of
> these models. It's a part of building that requires the most care
> in wood selection and building experience. It's probably one of
> the main reasons why experienced flyers have such an edge in these
> events.
> > >
> > > So this may be blasphemy but why not pick one or two of these
> events and say that the MS still has to be solid wood but you can
> brace it. The bracing could be limited to thread or wood or you
> could just leave it open for people to experiment with.
> > >
> > > The people who have successfully conquered the MS problem
> wouldn't have to change anything and would probably still win but
> the beginning flyers would have a much better chance of building a
> flyable model to the minimum weight.
> > >
> > > I've seen a few beginning indoor flyers who have spent a lot
> of time building a model but just get really demoralized when they
> couldn't make it fly. Having this type of experience is not good
> for keeping people interested.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Received on Fri Sep 07 2012 - 11:59:08 CEST
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